That's not so bad, what's bad is that the Baby will grow up and be taught, like all Muslims are, that God has given them a perfect Bible with all the magic words in it perfect for all ages forever - a book that commands followers to murder anyone who tries to change any little part of it - and in this perfect, living and divine book, are exhortations from God Himself to murder perfectly innocent people! And, if you will do these thing you are guaranteed to go to heaven where you will spend all day copulating with virgins who are guaranteed to bleed and cry! If only they just threw babies! Throwing babies is nothing compared.

Did any of u kno that there are 2 types of muslims. Sunni and She'a.. The Sunni people believe in Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) but the She'a people don't believe in out good prophet. Infact, they have changed the customs of our beautiful religion. Sunni is the real Islam.. Islam teaches us to repect each other.. not murder innocent people... Islam teaches us to defend ourselves and not attack.. throwing babies off a 50ft tall roof is NOT A TRADITION OF ISLAM!! Its BARBARIC, INHUMANE and GOD WILL PUNISH THEM for misleading everyone. I'm no scholar... but i know that ALLAH (SWT) is the most merciful of all, the most just of all. And talking abt Qur'an... you're right that Allah sent us the Book... and everything is written in it ... i dont think u'll trust me.. bt it is the most magnificent book there could ever be... everything is in it... and trust me.. it doesnt say throw babies off a roof of 50ft... and it doesnt say that u get to copulate with virgins all day in heaven... But it does say.. that all those people who do good deeds like feeding the poor, like loving ur neighbors and family and respecting everyone.. even non-muslims just because we're all humans... get to go to heaven and heaven is a place where everything that we ever wish is possible... where the riches of this world are far greater and beyond imaginable...and as for the pilgrimage that we do to the Ka'aba every year... u all have gotten it all wrong... Islam strictly prohibits prostitution and fornication... Islam is actually a very beautiful religion.. its just that some people have smeared the beauty of our religion by doing horrific things in the name of Islam... thats just wrong... My advise to u all who think Islam is a bizzare would be... dont trust wat you dont see for urself... I am a muslim woman.. and as a muslim woman i must say... Islam is the best thing that ever happened to me.

Dear Shifa Mohamed Saeed, what a nice post! But perhaps you are not reading the same Koran as we are. But, we Islamophobic people also are very conflicted about what the Koran really says - it seems clear to me that it advocated and rewards the unjust cold-blooded murder of innocent people. But, here is what I wrote to Robert Spencer and company about it and my position on this subject seems to make people angry - anyway, what follows should make it clear what there is about the Koran that upsets us so much and causes us to be paralyzed when it comes to forming a settled opinion about the Muslims. You won't be bored:

Date: Feb 28, 2007 7:34 AM
Subject: Re: TELLING IT LIKE IT IS IS BETTER'N PLAYING GAMES
To: Robert Spencer from Hal:

Perfect answer Robert, I guess I will make it mine also - tho I really can not see how in the world I will ever find a human heart in the Koran - but, the Pope seems to have some hope in that direction, so, I guess, being a Catholic, i should go along with him a ways - I hope the old guy knows what he is doing! Having read a lot of the Koran, it is really hard for me to lay down my sword, it seems for all the world that all out war is inevitable and the sooner we get into it the better for us. But, I'm conflicted by being a Catholic, so, I'll rest on that. Thank you for going to this trouble to answer my question from what must be a tremendous work load - keep up the wonderful work, if not for you there would be no significant knowledge base about the Muslims - I read your first book, and thot for a long time that the only sane people in the U.S., were you and I.
! I first became fearful of Muslims in the 70ds, Everyone thought I was going around yelling , "the sky is falling" - so glad not to ge a lone at last - at least this Pope knows what they are as religious creatures, evidently, he thinks their tiny human componant is something we can count on to save our collective head in the future sometime!

On 2/28/07, Robert Spencer wrote:

It is probably unreformable [Islam]. Something could happen that could surprise us all, but I am not counting on that. What I am recommending is based on political realities -- I am advocating things that I think could conceivably happen.

On Feb 27, 2007, at 10:43 PM, hal wrote:

*I don't mean to do that, and I only heckle lightly (i thot) I have your
book, but not the second one yet - but i am sure i agree with everything you say in it - but one important thing is missing: if those religions based on the infallibility of the Koran are not inherently bad, it does mean that this religion has been 'hijacked' after all, does it not? - either a responsible religion has been hijacked, or the religion itself is bone deep bad and non reformable. Which is it? I'm in some uncertainty about this, though I really do not see how it is reformable with out extreme amputation - it is a question that deserves an answer - and, I am fairly well read, but
I have not got your opinion, or Hugh's on this vital point of interest.
What am I missing here? Reading what you all have written, especially Greg, I would guess that you think it is unreformable - but, you don't seem to go towards those possible solutions to the unreformable *decision. Would just like to know. If I am ignorant, or stupid, well, what does that have to do with trying to learn something important and not finding the answer what one would think it would be!!!!
On 2/27/07, Robert Spencer wrote:

You are not only wrong, you don't seem to have read anything I have
written on the subject, and I have written a great deal. Then you hector me for taking a position I have never taken.
On Feb 27, 2007, at 8:59 PM, hal barton wrote:
Well, if those religions based on the infallibility of the Koran are not
inherently bad, it does mean that this religion has been 'hijacked' after all, does it not? You can not have it two ways - either a responsible religion has been hijacked, or the religion itself is bone deep bad and non reformable. Which is it? I, for one, would like to know - do you know, or not? What is your position on this most vital of all current questions? Why am I bad for wanting to know? The answer to this is not revealed by you or Hugh yet - or am I wrong? I don't mind being wrong - I just want to know this most important of all questions - why blame me?

On 2/27/07, Robert Spencer wrote:

You have no idea of what you're talking about. If I disagreed with
Ayaan on this, why did I post her with approving remarks? Your
endless misrepresentation of our positions is irritating. Please go
away.

On Feb 27, 2007, at 2:31 PM, hal wrote:

Bill Maher agreeing with Ayaan Hirsi Ali that Islam is not a
religion of peace ! How refreshing! At last we see the inventor of
the term, "political correctness" finally dropping his "religious
correctness" and along with Ayaan Hirst Ali, clearly stating that
Islam and all those religions that believe that the Koran is
perfect and cannot be wrong at any point whatsoever, are Pro-
servant caste system, and inherently and intrinsically unReformable
unless large sections of the Koran are ripped out and thrown away
forever! If only Hugh and Spencir would do the same! We all know
what Ayaan says is the truth, so why do not we on Jihad Watch
publicly state and condemn Islam for being a main stream religion
that is anti-human and a religion that approves of out and out
murder of innocent people? I'll tell you why! Religious
Correctness! We hold back the truth rather than suffer the title of
being "RELIGIOUSLY INCORRECT"!

Shifa Mohamed Saeed.

I too have read the Koran as well as the Sunna and Sira of the Prophet and I think you're picking out just the "good" things from the Prophet's early days in Mecca. Then he was still trying to persuade the Jews that he was a Prophet but when they rejected him he moved to Medina and his entire attitude changed.
Any Islamic Imam will tell you that when one verse contradicts another the later one is the true meaning..
Hence is the problem.........for the largest portion of his latter life his revelations were horrific, he made 76 raids (not defensive) on towns and caravans...............later when he broke a treaty he had with Mecca he returned and had his followers murder people he didn't like etc.
Again literally 90% of the Koran is evil and horrific.

We are apparently not reading the same book..................also as an after note.......if you don't read the Hadith and Sira........Isaq, Tabari, Muslim and Bukkari the Koran by itself makes no sense.............without the Hadith (sayings and deeds) and Sira (The biography) of the Prophet the Koran wouldn't be understandable.

Naseem! I really miss your input and participation. Please honor us with your contributions - you are a good writer and a clear, logical thinker - rare in this world. Peace and love to you, Hal

With respect, all religions are bizaare cults, all the way from Judaism that was started by a man who cut off his own foreskin to make a covenant with God and then heard voices to kill his son and then other voices to spare the son. If Abraham lived today, he'd be in a loony bin. Then there are the Chrisitans who believe that the woman who gave birth to Jesus was a virgin, and that the God of evil is everywhere trying to seduce us. Add in a little Spanish inquisition for some spice. Then there's Scientology that was started by a science fiction writer who wondered if he could start a viable religion based on intergallactic intercession. Anytime people decide to jettison rationality for a belief system, there's the historical likelihood that unscrupulous men and women will fleece them of their goods and even get them to drink poisoned Kool Aid not to mention, offer themselves, their daughters and sons for some gratuitous sex. Sons of Apes and Pigs should refrain from picking on Islam until all the other religions clean up their acts.

Dear Larry, with all due respect, we have someone much loonier than Abroaham, with a lot more power, who, like abe, says he gets all his marching orders direct from God! He is the most poweful man in the world! You are much closer to an asylum than even he!( Pres. Bush)! Who are you/a little nothing by comparison! And as for your other village atheist outmoded science attempts, well, you are just so far behind the time that it is pathetic - haven't you heard of Quantum mechanics? All the latest science is based on it - and a lot more comming in every day - and what is this greatest of all science based on? Nothing else at all except that the universe is absolutely conscious, or else it is being managed by a super conscious entity! Fool! why the heck don't you go goggle "quantum" - or, better, just go to You Tube and type in "quantum" and view the Dr. Quantum videos and then you can stop making these doo - doo's in public! LEARN SOMETHUN ABOUT SCIENCE PLEASE! I could crave a better atheist out of a Bananna !

Hey Larry,

Ibn will stop attacking the really crazy religion of Islam when his fellow coptic Christians of Egypt are no longer tormented, belittled, and murdered by the 'honorable' muslims of Egypt.

Furthermore, sure, most religions have a wild doctrine, but to omit the fact that islam is in fact a lot crazier, and a lot more violent than other religions in practice to is refuse the truth. Let me add, I don't want to hear about what Christianity did hundreds of years ago, I am talking about the here and now!

Wake up to reality of Islam Larry! Quit trying to equate the unequatable! You are lying to yourself and you know it. Realize what we are up against. Islam was founded and spread by the sword, that in itself, the fact that it was FOUNDED on the sword, puts the 'religion' of Islam into another category all by itself.

Dear Kastrioti - You will be very wrong if you are suggesting that Christian Crusaders did anything unnessary to keep the Muslim savages from kidnapping boys and girls, women and men, pilgrims on their way to see the holy land - they were poor and the muslims were weak - had but a few men, whilist the savages were as thick as ants - pure as driven snow, were we Catholics, driven by an evil wind from hell - that wind is islam!

er.., sorry - menat to write that the Catholics were weak, not the the Muslims were weak - they were rich and stron at that time...

I'm saddened by your ignorance. May god bless you with HIS mercy. And yeah, maybe we aren't reading the same BOOK. You are being misled by some delirious person's ramblings. It's sad that even some muslims have fallen into the same trap as you have.

No religion of the BOOK, be it islam, chritianity or judaism, is evil. All of it was revealed from the One & Only, Most Merciful, the ALmighty Allah. The latter religions all taught the disciplines of Islam. Moses (Moosa)and even Jesus (Easa) was the prophert of GOD. It's only us, human beings, that misled the people of the BOOKs by altering the holy scriptures. Why cannot you beleive that Jesus was concieved by a virgin when Adam, the begining of mankind, was created without even a father or a mother. Isn't the Creator of Adam as able to create another being without a father?!

You, and even I think that the 'baby throwing ritual' is inhuman and bizzare. But it's not only the muslims of india who are doing it. The Hindhus' are too. They aren't doing it because it's a muslim custom, but beacuse it's part of the culture of their country. I'm also a muslim, but it's never done in my country.
Wouldn't I be doing it if it's a religious custom!

Jihad, as percived by people today, is condemned in Islam. Islam probihibits the slaying of innocent men, especially women and children. Jihad should only be to protect their religion and/or country. What some muslims are doing in the name of "Jihad" can only be described as Suicide. And in islam, people who commit suicied are condemned to hell. Islam is such gentle religion that even the person who shows kindness to an animal or insect gets the reward of Heaven.

Those who want to corner men of faith by saying "show God to us if you speak the truth" or something to that effect, can find no answers, no scientific *validation* to His existence..but if one wants to shed off his skin of arrogance and embrace Belief, the truth is not far off for those of want..

And the efforts of either forces on either side will continue, as it always have.

Qur'an VS traditions- for which on January 31, 1990, Dr.Rashad Khalifa gave his life:

http://submission.org/miracle/history.html

"Over it are Nineteen.And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, "What symbol doth God intend by this?" Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind."74:30-31

I wish all of you find what you seek.

Dear Dhilma, Dear man, you hide from your very self. But where is your very "self" when your God is a total puppet-master who makes no regard of free-will? As you say, "Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth:" And you have made yourself in his image: Consider: If you published some of what you said up there about Allah and what Jihad means according to your view, you would be murdered - but if I said my God was a two headed dog - or anything, I would be left in safety and peace while every Christian waited for me to find out a closer truth - now which community is most likely to have God in it? All I am asking you to do is try to think like a man and not a puppet. If you put that Blasphemy about your religion on a bumper-sticker your fellow Muslims would kill you before nightfall - so, do you what us to live in such fear? Peace is freedom, not lock-step behavior enforced by absolute conformity enforced by absolute fear of having one's throat cut, or your six year old raped. Let go of slavery - especially when it doesn't even make the trains run on time.

Here is poor Dhilma's great revelation that God is a God of murder: Poor man is not well at all 1.There are 114 chapters in the Quran, or 19 x 6.

2.The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or 19 x 334.

3.Then you add the 30 different numbers which are mentioned in the Quran's text (i.e. one God, two brothers, etc.), the total is 162146 or 19 x 8534.

4.The first statement in Quran, "In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful" consists of 19 Arabic letters. Known as the `Basmalah', it prefaces every chapter except Chapter 9.

5.Though missing from Chapter 9, exactly 19 chapters later the Basmalah occurs twice. Chapter 27 has this statement at its beginning and in verse 30. This makes the total number of times the Basmalah occurs in the Quran 114, or 19 x 6.

6.Since there are 19 chapters between the missing Basmalah and the extra one, the sum of those chapter numbers is a multiple of 19. (The sum of any 19 consecutive numbers is a multiple of 19.) But the total, 342, is also the exact number of words between the two occurrences of the Basmalah in Chapter 27. This number, 342, is 19 x 18.

7.Every word in the Basmalah occurs throughout the Quran a number of times which is a multiple of 19.

8.The very first revelation that was given to the prophet of Islam, Mohammed, came as 19 words.

9.The total number of letters making up the 19 words of the first revelation is 76, 19 x 4.

10.Though they were the first revelation, these verses are placed at the beginning of Chapter 96. This chapter is atop the last 19 chapters.

11.Chapter 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, or 19 x 16.

12.The last chapter revealed (Chapter 110) has 19 words, and its first verse is 19 letters.

13.God's name in Arabic, `Allah,' occurs in the Quran 2698 times, or 19 x 142.

14.If you add the numbers of the verses where `Allah' occurs, the total is 118123 or 19 x 6217.

15.The main message in the Quran is that there is only One God. The number of times that the word `one' is used to refer to this concept of One God is 19.

16.The word `Quran' occurs in 38 different chapters, or 19 x 2.

17.The total number of times `the Quran' is mentioned is 57, 19 x 3.

18.Within the 114 chapters of the Quran, 29 of them begin with the Quranic initials discussed earlier. Intermixed between the first initialed chapter (Chapter 2) and the last initialed chapter (Chapter 68) are 38 non-initialed chapters, or 19 x 2.

19.In that same group of chapters, from Chapter 2 to Chapter 68, there are 19 alternating sets of initialed and non-initialed chapters.

20.The total number of verses making up this group of chapters is 5263, 19 x 277.

21.Within this group of chapters there are also 2641 occurrences of the word `Allah', or 19 x 139. Of course, that leaves 57, or 19 x 3, occurrences of that word outside of this group.

22.If you add the chapter and verse numbers of the 57 occurrences of `Allah' outside the initialed section, the total is 2432 or 19 x 128.

23.There are a large number of discoveries having to do with the numbers of the chapters and verses. Many of them are very complex and interrelated. Here is a simple one to give you a feel for these discoveries: If you add the numbers assigned to all the chapters, plus the numbers assigned to all of the verses, plus the number of verses in the Quran, the total is 346199 or 19 x 19 x 959.

24.If you look at the initialed chapters separately and add the chapter numbers, verse numbers and number of verses, the total is 190133, 19 x 10007. Of course it follows that the total for the uninitialed chapters, 156066, is also divisible by 19.

There are a great many more discoveries, most of them more complex than the ones presented above. Additional discoveries continue to be made as Dr. Khalifa's work is carried on by the many students of pure Quran he left behind.

You may already be convinced that this interlocking occurrence of the number 19 is too frequent to be accidental. If not, the next section dealing with the Quranic initials should dispel your doubts.

If the Koran says that the murders of innocent humans, or the making of second class citizen of innocent people based on religion choice, is a good and holy thing, then those people who claim that the Koran is all good, and that people should obey this perfect book from God named the Koran, totally, just have to be out to get you and yours!
Then why would you let such people into your country? Are you mentally ill? Is it not a clear matter of the survival of civilization and your very own family that you stop these people from being able to exist in your country? Why are you putting up with this obscenity? If you keep on this way, how in the world do you think you can survive your total extinction? Tell me how any wishful thinking at all could possibly provide anything like the survival of your family when you have a 10% murderous minority like Muslims? You tell me! Naseem tells it like it is, some of you will do well to listen to her!

Oh, Naseem, where are you? Come back and help me tell them how weak and effete and silly and unable to survive they are!